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NHVsaxhorn
07-07-2006, 04:51 PM
Greetings to all,
I'm going to try and do this without getting drummed out of camp on my first posting. I'm going to talk about respect, and sometimes the lack of it.
I have been doing this since 1999 in New Hampshire and Vermont, and travelled down to DC/Baltimore area from NH approximately 24 times in 2 years....2002-2004 to play bass saxhorn with Jari's Federal City Brass Band.
During that time, I have met and/or interacted with literally hundreds of great folks. In 2004 my wife and I moved here.
Federal City has played at Monocacy, Cedar Creek, 140th Antietam, Spotsylvania, Gettysburg Rememberence Day (s), McDowell, Gettysburg as the 26th North Carolina Band with that regiment in October of 2005, Paynes Farm on the campaign........to name a few. Pitching tents and sleeping in the dirt. Plus Fort Delaware several times, and concerts too numerous to mention, from the Library of Congress to Moravian Music Festivals as the 26th North Carolina Band wearing hand stitched Confederate uniforms, made from cloth from the North Carolina. Our instruments, EVERY one is original...or music is researched.....and we'll sleep around the camp fire. Every reenactor we've had the pleasure to meet seems to appreciate our efforts. Every one, except one.
Now you guys seem to tolerate him...and in fact some folks think he has " something to offer"......and is " knowledgeable ".......and we all just " need to understand him" as I've been told.
I think that he needs to try less " humor" and show more respect for others who know vastly more than he does, certainly about Civil War music.
This person, who shall remain nameless has insulted about every member of our band.......from events at McDowell, 2005 where he tried to off load some knowledge on Jari ( bugler United States Air Force Band, Washington DC) by coming into our encampment, interrupting our playing, and telling him how HE thinks " Last Post" should be played.........doing so right in Jari's camp, in front of Jari's band.......bad form coming to another man's camp and insulting him in front of his band...bad form......to insulting our lead Eb cornet player at Fort Delaware a few weeks ago......in front of people! Now that person, our lead player is in the real United States Army, currently stationed at Ft. Meade, attending Definse Information School. Up at 0300hrs on Friday for a weigh in for record, up at 0400 hrs Saturday,for a PT test for record ( score 298 out of 300, finishing 2nd out of 150 soldiers ) then requests leave, drives to Ft. Delaware to play music all day for nothing but fun, sleep on an Army cot that night, and go back to school the next day. That soldier played first trumpet in the NH Philharmonic Orchestra, has a degree in music from Williams College in Mass. studied for 7 years with Charlie Lewis of the Empire Brass, Boston, who cut one of the first recordings of Civil War music. Well, the bombastic person I'm speaking about, says to our lead cornet player " well I see New Hampshire is here, sending in the second string" as she walks into the room. Second string????? Is he smoking dope? And Yes SHE. Staff Sergeant, US Army. Five years in the various Army bands.....music degree...... while HE, Mr Bombastic, doesn't have the musical talent to carry her mouthpiece and HE has an opinion?
I'd say LOTS more respect needs to happen amongst a few reenactors, and alot less talking. For the life of me, why all of you accept his failed attempt at humor, is beyond the life of me. You all try so hard to find the good, and all he does is insult, belittle, complain and act out fits of jealousy. I'm not asking that we all sit around the campfire, have a sip of scotch, hold hands and sing Kumbaya. Just respect, or a Civil War era muzzel......if anyone's got one?
By Sunday, our cornet player had listened to enough and on her way back to the REAL Army said, " you know, I only met you once before but you ............. are living proof that the Indian did...............the buffalo."
A little respect for those much more talented and equally devoted is in order.......then come back here and voice an " opinion" if you must. Insulting people to their faces? Visiting another man's camp and insulting him in front of his unit? Not good, not funny, disrespectful, childish, immature......and not good for " the hobby" Now let's see if I'M respected enough, that this post will stand, or are we too afraid to offend one person who offends lots of us.

FWL
07-07-2006, 05:41 PM
A little respect for those much more talented and equally devoted is in order.......then come back here and voice an " opinion" if you must. Insulting people to their faces? Visiting another man's camp and insulting him in front of his unit? Not good, not funny, disrespectful, childish, immature......and not good for " the hobby" Now let's see if I'M respected enough, that this post will stand, or are we too afraid to offend one person who offends lots of us.


I have no idea who or what you are talking about. I'm not a musician but my son is and won Don Hubbards sword at FT Delware the last time Don was alive (for bugle). Jari knows me, my son and wife. Federal City Brass Band is tops. Probably saw you at Ryegate and saw one of you get married. Sorry this had to happen, but I've heard of worse in this hobby.

regards

cblodg
07-07-2006, 06:35 PM
If i'm right you guys are great! If you are the coule that was married up at Ryegate, then I was there. You even played at my college.

I can't believe some of the stuff that has been said to your group, you guys are top shelf when it comes to music. One of the best Tapps I've ever heard came from your bugler.

Chris

MStuart
07-07-2006, 07:01 PM
I have no idea who or what you are talking about.

I do. And the man has a pretty darn good point. Bully for him.

Mark

bill watson
07-07-2006, 08:54 PM
"Every reenactor we've had the pleasure to meet seems to appreciate our efforts. Every one, except one."

Well, I can think of three, but since this person pulled your beard in your camp that narrows it down for me who you're talking about, the only one with either the brass to do that deliberately to your face, or the lack of awareness that his remarks were causing damage. Both scenarios are plausible. And I think you're possibly overreacting. And I suggest you simply have a dialogue with him. I detect a clash of styles, or personality types if you must.

tompritchett
07-07-2006, 09:11 PM
Now let's see if I'M respected enough, that this post will stand, or are we too afraid to offend one person who offends lots of us.

Since the Provost has already logged, I think that it safe to say that your post will not get pulled - for several reasons. First, you did not name the individual so his identity is known to only you, him, and those that saw his actions. Second, you did not call him names, attack his character, ridicule him, or question his family tree, (I knew a collegiate basketball coach who confided that was an automatic technical.), but rather merely described his actions, which definitely sounded unappropriate. Third, your post was more towards making a point about boorish behavior, especially your last paragraph. The saddest part of your post - without knowing the specifics of the incident, I can think of several, highly respected reenactors that could be capable of such actions. This does not speak highly of our hobby sometimes.

NHVsaxhorn
07-07-2006, 09:34 PM
Ayup, a few of you have got it nailed. I started the 12th NHV Regiment Serenade Band in 1999. The band is still going, even though we moved down here to DC area in 2004. We still drive up to NH to play with them, and a few members come here once in a while, as one did just to add to the Federal City Brass Band at Ft. Delaware ( which is a great experience for young fifers and drummers). We play just to sleep in that old fort, listen to the field music and add something to the weekend for everyone.
I appreciate the kind words about our music, for the 12th NHV, Federal City and 26th NC...... Just as all of you do your best, to portray correctly, a Federal or Confederate soldier, we do our best to portray a bandsman. I was the lucky guy to get married at Ryegate Vermont, in front of the band. A combined band of Federal City, 12th NHV, Centennial Brass Band from Portland Maine, Excelsior Cornet Band, Syracuse. Kind of someone to remember and put it together.
Now that I'm in DC, I am researching regimental brass bands at the National Archives, Library of Congress and National Guard Library. Most times, I can get to these places 2-3 times a week, for almost 2 years. I have a wealth of documentation, lots of which has not been published. Being a retired cop has it's benefits.

bob 125th nysvi
07-08-2006, 08:46 PM
(if accurately described, there are two sides to every story) should occur in what is essentially a hobby or recreational activity.

My usual reaction in any situation is to stop the person when they stop for breath and ask them to take this up in private.

That is if I respect them or their opinion.

If I don't I laugh at them and walk away.

My suggestion to you is to laugh at them and walk away. Life is too short to let anyone other than the ones you love influence your opinion of yourself and what your doing.

But I have another question? Where were the OTHER offciers in camp during this incident. Any CW officer worth his uniform would have taken the head off of anyone of equal or lower rank coming into his unit and pulling such a stunt.

Unfortunately some of our officers seem to think that their obligations begin and end on the parade ground or battlefield. Maybe we should start looking at our officers for their TOTAL leadship abilities as opposed to how pretty they look with a sword and gloves.

Bob Sandusky
Co C 125th NYSVI
Esperance, NY

NHVsaxhorn
07-09-2006, 10:57 AM
I've read all your comments, and all are constructive. Unfortunately, most all suggestons have been tried AND failed, over the last 4 years. Our culprit is numb to any and all of our "suggestions"........blind to any gestures of disgust, deaf to any comebacks......he doesn't get it when we scatter.......he just thinks he's cute, funny and has all the right answers. I'm not being too sensitive, I was a cop. It's not a personality "conflict"......unless of course, you can say I have a ' conflict" with boarish, overbearing, immature, unintelligent demeaning behavior, done in public, in front of the recipient's peers. He'll know who he is by reading this........and interesting that he hasn't responded...for he responds to everything posted.......off-loading his failed attempt at "humor"........usually with negative humor. Our boy needs to learn humility and respect...and if he can't, then the old saying "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all " should apply.
I know he's reading this and I'm grateful I can write it. Thank you. Now, I'll tell him, if he can't be good, respectful OR quiet, he needs to "stand-by" as we used to say......for I suspect, that after being a cop for 20 years, I could do verbals rings around him..........in front of people that he would not care to suffer the embarrassment I could levy. No one, has more verbal put downs and barbs like a cop........I'm not sensitive.......I'm filled to the top of my cup. Others are too.
I've been quiet too long........4 years......trying to just ignore and or chalk him up to being him. Just trying to all get along and sing Kumbaya around the camp fire. I learned a saying in a management school I attended once." There are no changes in a persons actions, unless there are consequences to his behavior." I'll try embarrassment.......and see how that works. If he can't respect us, he'll at at least be quiet.
My intention is to get my message out without a confrontation, physical or otherwise. I could think of no greater forum. I wanted to give him " fair warning" unlike what he has given others, of negativity and embarrassment coming. You have allowed me to do that. It is good for the " hobby" ( I hate that word for what we do.)..it should be " craft or art form"........ I don't intend to hammer away, and hope to be on this site from time to time learning, sharing my research with others and just having fun.
Now we'll see how far we'll get.

Bill_Cross
07-09-2006, 11:11 AM
This is a hobby that thrives on controversy, and even has its own board devoted to insult-flinging. If he's one of your group (a musician), then get over it: music has historically been filled with loony opinions, and musicians often hate each other out of a mix of jealousy, ego, clashing styles, personal conflicts (e.g., romancing the same woman), etc. You can't open his eyes.

If he's not a musician, then you should be laughing at him. Jari's absolutely the best in the hobby, a professional's professional. If someone is criticizing what you do, consider that a man is known as much for the enemies he makes as his friends. One of my fondest "magic moments" in this crazy hobby was listening to Jari blow "Taps" on the same field where it was written and first played during the "Berkeley Hundred" event put on by the Rowdy Pards some years back. The term "spine-tingling" was coined for his effect on nearly all present.

Good events get unjustly pilloried, good people and groups, too. It's one reason that most units have life spans-- just like people. Your band will have detractors, the best groups and people do.

bill watson
07-09-2006, 11:19 AM
"It's not a personality "conflict"......unless of course, you can say I have a ' conflict" with boarish, overbearing, immature, unintelligent demeaning behavior, done in public, in front of the recipient's peers. He'll know who he is by reading this........and interesting that he hasn't responded...for he responds to everything posted.......off-loading his failed attempt at "humor"........usually with negative humor. Our boy needs to learn humility and respect...and if he can't, then the old saying "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all " should apply." "

You just described a personality conflict. You think people ought to behave a certain way. He believes an entirely different set of behaviors is appropriate. Why is he wrong? There are a great many places where people interact by jibing sarcastically at each other and exchanging insults, even among complete strangers. Get stuck in New York traffic sometime and you'll see it's the norm -- and it means nothing in terms of stiring up basic emotions, it's just another way those interact. That this is baffling and upsetting to anyone who believes people should always interact in cordial ways, and should not insult each other, is not really a surprise.
There are lots of people who think "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" is for sissies, and entire subsets of people who spend part of each day competing with each other to come up with the best putdown. And there are interesting results when someone from a cultural background in which a spoken insult is exactly the same as a punch meets up with a putdown artist, and it's sometimes violent.
But in the case you mentioned: If he walked into my camp and noted, upon the arrival of a musician, that "the second string is here," I'd have responded not in the way I expect to be treated, but in the way he expects to be treated.: "How would you know seocnd string from yarn?" or "What are you doing here? I thought there was a proficiency test for musicians to get on the field."

tompritchett
07-09-2006, 02:44 PM
I think that this thread has gone on enough. It is time to move beyond the individual and instead focus on lessons that we can all learn from this (topic for a new thread?). Therefore I am closing this thread for further comments. If anyone wishes to launch a new thread that addresses the mutual "respect" issue in more general terms then feel free to do so, but keep it general and do not focus on any particular individuals. As someone that can have a sarcastic sense of humor sometimes on the field with my pards, I think that this thread has opened my eyes on how my actions can sometimes be perceived.