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Dunn Browne
09-01-2008, 10:50 PM
I noticed this spring while visiting the Park that the erosion caused by excessive foot traffic in Devil's Den is getting quite bad. This seems to be caused mostly by unsupervised children that treat the area like a playground. I also noticed that the spaces between the large boulders are their favorite places to throw their trash. Now that the Plum Run/Slaughter Pen area has been opened up by clearing the trees how long before this area becomes a trash pit also?

Perhaps it's time to install some roped off footpaths in the area. I know it doesn't work up on Little Round Top (another favorite play area), but maybe if park security spent a little time there and handed out a few 50 dollar fines people would be a little more inclined to obey the rules and parent their children. I feel a hefty fine for littering or maybe a little community service picking up trash on the Battlefield might work also. Your thoughts please.

TheColorBearer
09-01-2008, 11:27 PM
but maybe if park security spent a little time there and handed out a few 50 dollar fines people would be a little more inclined to obey the rules and parent their children. I feel a hefty fine for littering or maybe a little community service picking up trash on the Battlefield might work also. Your thoughts please.


I agree with the fine enforcement but make the fine even higher than 50 $

Make it more like 500 $

This would help cover the cost of operating the museum, and it would be free admission, even into the movie theatre !

Ross L. Lamoreaux
09-01-2008, 11:39 PM
National Park police and the museum are two seperate entities. Law enforcement and museum operations are not mutually inclusive and trying to do the accounting for specific fines to be given to the museum would be a paperwork nightmare. People who desecrate battlefields are the same kind who throw litter out of their cars, beat their children, and assorted other social maladies. Fines wouldn't deter them just as capitol punishment doesn't stop murder. The best thing to do with them is to pile on so much community service in the same part of the park they desecrated that they can't work their normal job (if they have one).

yankeecav
09-02-2008, 12:51 AM
National Park police and the museum are two seperate entities. Law enforcement and museum operations are not mutually inclusive and trying to do the accounting for specific fines to be given to the museum would be a paperwork nightmare. People who desecrate battlefields are the same kind who throw litter out of their cars, beat their children, and assorted other social maladies. Fines wouldn't deter them just as capitol punishment doesn't stop murder. The best thing to do with them is to pile on so much community service in the same part of the park they desecrated that they can't work their normal job (if they have one).

Generally this would work but for the fact that many (most?) of the people that visit these areas of the park are not local. Unless you can cite them, get them to court, sentence them and get them on a community service detail within hours of the offense it won't work. Granted, while the sight of a work crew in orange jump suits with "I littered" stenciled on their backs would be fantastic I just don't see it working logistically.

As to captial punishment there is one thing for sure, the person executed won't murder again.

Brian Wolle
09-02-2008, 02:40 AM
I watched someone who does a Civil War personality for the Park Service throw trash out of the window of her car the other day. You're crazy if you say something.

So sad for the people who get it, to have to live among the people who do not and never will.

I was on Devil's Den Sunday night and I could hardly believe all the ghost people there after dark. I say, charge them an admission and let them stay all night. You would probably have a lot better luck than trying to catch any errant trash throwers.

MBond057
09-02-2008, 03:39 AM
You can’t police honor and dignity or force respectful morals on anyone. The type of behavior that would disrespect our country’s places of honor can’t be changed by fining someone. No fine will change their behavior because they don’t have a moral compass and are self-centered. Honor and dignity is a gift that one can only give to themselves.

All we can do is role model positive behavior and lead by example. I always bring a trash bag with me when I visit the parks and take a few minutes to pick-up the trash I encounter. Hopefully, other descent people will do the same thing and lend a hand picking up after the few who don’t give themselves gifts.

hendrickms24
09-02-2008, 07:59 AM
I noticed this spring while visiting the Park that the erosion caused by excessive foot traffic in Devil's Den is getting quite bad. This seems to be caused mostly by unsupervised children that treat the area like a playground. I also noticed that the spaces between the large boulders are their favorite places to throw their trash. Now that the Plum Run/Slaughter Pen area has been opened up by clearing the trees how long before this area becomes a trash pit also?

Perhaps it's time to install some roped off footpaths in the area. I know it doesn't work up on Little Round Top (another favorite play area), but maybe if park security spent a little time there and handed out a few 50 dollar fines people would be a little more inclined to obey the rules and parent their children. I feel a hefty fine for littering or maybe a little community service picking up trash on the Battlefield might work also. Your thoughts please.

I was at Devils Den in the spring and did not see any signs stating that the boulders are off limits! Did I just not see the signs? If the DD does have erosion problem then the park could place some kind of barrier up to keep visitors away from the area and maybe seed the area with high traffic grass to keep the soil in place.

While I was at the DD people of all ages were walking around the rocks and I'm sure that most of them were not aware that they were helping the process of erosion! I sure did not think about this as I eat my lunch in the area.

Dunn Browne
09-02-2008, 08:55 AM
I was at Devils Den in the spring and did not see any signs stating that the boulders are off limits! Did I just not see the signs? If the DD does have erosion problem then the park could place some kind of barrier up to keep visitors away from the area and maybe seed the area with high traffic grass to keep the soil in place.

While I was at the DD people of all ages were walking around the rocks and I'm sure that most of them were not aware that they were helping the process of erosion! I sure did not think about this as I eat my lunch in the area.

That is what I said, there aren't any barriers at DD. If there were many people would still climb over them or go around them just like the erosion control barriers on LRT. There are no consequences for breaking the rules.