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View Full Version : KKK Does it again, Where next?



3rdUSRedleg
07-03-2006, 05:10 PM
Just saw on the news, KKK was granted a permit to protest Sept. 2nd In Gettysburg, on the grounds of the cyclorama.......

This is just plain disgusting.. but not surprising

VaTrooper
07-03-2006, 05:15 PM
Mabey we can vote to push back the reenactment again and have it that weekend. I wonder if'll they'll still have the sand with all the boys in blue around.

Pvt_Idaho
07-03-2006, 06:04 PM
I am glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read William Shifflett's post. That would have hurt. Brilliant idea!

Audrey Scanlan

flattop32355
07-03-2006, 06:22 PM
Let 'em do it. Just everybody ignore them. Stay away that day, or if you're there, be at some other location. Nothing they do can sully that ground. All they can do is make fools of themselves.

Kimmel
07-03-2006, 08:17 PM
Question..... Why do they keep choosing Union victories?! Whoever their coordinator is needs a history book.

cblodg
07-03-2006, 08:59 PM
maybe the spirits of those honored dead will come back and show those "ghosts of our confederate brothers" a thing or two.

It *is* an interesting touch that they keep going to Union victory sites though, I must agree.

Chris

captdougofky
07-03-2006, 10:18 PM
Calm down boys they are doing what they want, getting you all upset. Being from Kentucky I have lived around them all my life. Look them in the eye and state your ground. I am a reenactor CS Artillery and I don't get upset why should you.

Always Doug
Lyons Battery
Kentucky

tompritchett
07-03-2006, 10:37 PM
I suspect they are picking sites where Union victories resulted in the pushing of Northern ideas down the throats of the Southerners (using their thinking here folks not mine). Remember it was the Southern resistance towards civil rights movement of the 60s and the Federal and, in their eyes Northern, support of the movement and enforcement of the resulting court decisions and legislation that really brought the KKK back to the forefront since it peak in the 20's. (Interestingly enough, the 60's also allowed the Republican to become dominant in American politics as the "Dixiecrats" defected starting with Nixon's first election.)

While I deplore the racist and hate-filled message of the KKK, unfortanately, I also have to support their right to hold their rallies provided they have met all the applicable local regulations about public displays. It is the Constitution and all its amendments that makes this country great and that is what we must always remember needs defending - not any particular adminstration, governing political party or given political correctness. Twice, I have sworn oaths of service to this country and in both cases the oath was to defend the Constitution and then the nation which uses the Constitution as its foundation. If you allow the foundation to be destroyed, then that which is built upon can never be as stable and may ultimately crumble.

Having said that, I would have no problem exercising my right of free speech by showing up in my full Confederate gear with a sign saying something to the effect that "to true Southerners, the KKK are nothing but poor white trash".

Popeye
07-04-2006, 08:16 AM
1- Though they are without a doubt, all white, I'd beg to differ that they are are all poor white trash....in fact, history would show that they have from time to time, had a strong financial background. Not so much these days but, from time to time.
2- Please do not equate the KKK to just Southern folk. Again, history will prove that there has been a strong presence in the North as well. Racism is NOT a Southern thing. I live in the North and there is as much here as there is anywhere else, and not just towards blacks.
3- The KKK has, unfortunately, as much right to stand about and promote their thinking as any other group, one's we agree with and one's we don't. Never let their small minded thinking infect your willingness to defend their right to express their idology. If you bar them, you bar queers, pro-abortionist, anti-warist, flag burners,the NRA, the American Legion Auxillary, civil war battlefield preservasion....you see, those you agree with and those you don't.
4- The KKK is not about Southern Rights or Independance, never have been. They [B]were[B] about protecting their homes and families and just ex-Confederate soldiers getting together for the sake of brotherhood. As Tom pointed out, it was the Civil Rights movement that brought them back out and then, it was about protecting the white culture in America, and that's all. My grandfather was a born and breed Northerner and he told me of rest rooms in the North when he was a kid, in the early 1900's, that were white only or had marked white and blacks. So, it is not just a Southern thing. What hurt the history and heritage of the War for Southern Independence was that the KKK used the Confederate battle flag, as a partner to the US flag, in their cause and protest. No one wants to ban the US flag because of it.

This is a deep subject but the bottom line is 2 pronged, it is not a cause to blame the Southern folk or thier history and it is a chance to show what we stand for, the Constitution of the United States of America and to protect the history of those that fought and sometimes died, to protect and preserve.

Just let them do their thing and you do what you do......educate the same people passing the KKK folks, to the truths of the matters.

Keith "Popeye" Rayeski
NRA Life Member

tompritchett
07-04-2006, 08:52 AM
1- Though they are without a doubt, all white, I'd beg to differ that they are are all poor white trash....in fact, history would show that they have from time to time, had a strong financial background. Not so much these days but, from time to time.

When my mother used the term "poor white trash" she was not necessarily referring to their current financial status but what their moral character, or more importantly lack thereof, said about their background - even if that background had to be traced back for several generations.


2- Please do not equate the KKK to just Southern folk. Again, history will prove that there has been a strong presence in the North as well. Racism is NOT a Southern thing. I live in the North and there is as much here as there is anywhere else, and not just towards blacks.

Total agreement. Racism historically has always been an American issue and not just a Southern issue. It is just historically we Southerners just seemed to be more open about it. However, probably the worse single instance of racial violence against blacks last century occurred in Kansas and not in the South. And who can forget the riots in Boston when courts required that the Boston school districts institute mandatory bussing of students to desegrate their schools. Would have made Lester Maddox and the early George Wallace proud. I will never forget when I moved to the Bronx and one of my neighbors saw the Confederate flag on my front license plate. The first words out of his mouth were not "hello, how are you" but instead, "you're from the South, you must hate n*****s too." (This is when the dual meaning of the flag was truly driven home for me because until then, I saw the flag only to mean pride in my Southern heritage.)


3- The KKK has, unfortunately, as much right to stand about and promote their thinking as any other group, one's we agree with and one's we don't. Never let their small minded thinking infect your willingness to defend their right to express their idology. If you bar them, you bar queers, pro-abortionist, anti-warist, flag burners,the NRA, the American Legion Auxillary, civil war battlefield preservasion....you see, those you agree with and those you don't.

Could not agree more. That is why so much of my post was about the importance of protecting the Constitution against even ourselves. Personally, I think that the terrorist are definitely wining because of the sacrifices that we are allowing to made to Constitutionally protected, personal liberties in the interests of the government "protecting" us. The terrorist have pushed us in doing more damage to the American ideal by undermining the Constitution than they could ever to physically.


4- The KKK is not about Southern Rights or Independance, never have been. They [B]were[B] about protecting their homes and families and just ex-Confederate soldiers getting together for the sake of brotherhood. As Tom pointed out, it was the Civil Rights movement that brought them back out and then, it was about protecting the white culture in America, and that's all. My grandfather was a born and breed Northerner and he told me of rest rooms in the North when he was a kid, in the early 1900's, that were white only or had marked white and blacks. So, it is not just a Southern thing. What hurt the history and heritage of the War for Southern Independence was that the KKK used the Confederate battle flag, as a partner to the US flag, in their cause and protest. No one wants to ban the US flag because of it.

This is a deep subject but the bottom line is 2 pronged, it is not a cause to blame the Southern folk or thier history and it is a chance to show what we stand for, the Constitution of the United States of America and to protect the history of those that fought and sometimes died, to protect and preserve.

Just let them do their thing and you do what you do......educate the same people passing the KKK folks, to the truths of the matters.

Amen. That would be the reason why any counter protest/education that I would make would be in a Confederate uniform.

MStuart
07-04-2006, 10:39 AM
Ku Klux Klan targeting Civil War sites
Tuesday, July 04, 2006

By Milan Simonich, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette



Civil War battlefields, magnets for tourists and the media, are a new target of the Ku Klux Klan.

The white supremacist organization will demonstrate Sept. 2 at Gettysburg National Military Park, site of the Civil War's bloodiest battle.

It will be the second event of its type in three months. About 30 Klansmen and members of like-minded groups rallied June 10 at Antietam National Battlefield near Sharpsburg, Md.

Gordon Young, a Sharpsburg resident and imperial wizard of the World Knights of the KKK, obtained the permits for both demonstrations.

"The Klan is the ghost of the Confederacy," Mr. Young said yesterday in explaining his interest in battlefields where Southern soldiers fought and died.

He has another reason for staging rallies at Civil War sites.

"The battle-fields protect my constitutional rights a lot better than the cities do," said Mr. Young, 40, a Klan member for 16 years.

Gettysburg, in south central Pennsylvania, is the nation's most-visited Civil War site, drawing 1.7 million people a year.

John A. Latschar, superintendent of Gettysburg National Military Park, said he is obl igated to accommodate the Klan. He called the organization's claim of racial superiority "inflammatory," but said it nonetheless is protected by the First Amendment.

"The United States Constitution guarantees everyone the right to speak freely and to assemble peaceably, regardless of the content of their message," Mr. Latschar said.

The staff at Antietam took an identical position. "The Supreme Court has ruled consistently that national parks in particular are places of freedom of expression," said Antietam Superintendent John Howard.

Some 30 people went to Antietam to counter the Klan. Both groups were dwarfed by police, who numbered about 200.

Ben Wagner, human resources manager of Antietam, said the Klan received more publicity for its appearance at the battlefield than it did when it rallied a few miles away in the town of Sharpsburg.

Antietam and Gettysburg remain in the public eye because of their wartime significance. The battle at Antietam Creek on Sept. 17, 1862, left 23,000 Union and Confederate soldiers dead, wounded or missing. That was the single most destructive day of the Civil War. One soldier who died was only 12 years old.

Fighting at Gettysburg lasted July 1-3, 1863. It left 51,000 soldiers dead, injured or missing.

-----------------------------

Lets hope it rains that day........wrinkles their hoods and soaks their fat arses

They're not complete dumbA's........they know since the police outnumber everyone there by 10-1 there's little chance someone will clean their clocks..

Mark

VaTrooper
07-04-2006, 10:44 AM
Or mabey a thunder storm so the "imperial Wiizard" can ride a lightning bolt.

FWL
07-04-2006, 11:56 AM
Amen. That would be the reason why any counter protest/education that I would make would be in a Confederate uniform.


I agree Tom a counter protest with both white and african american in confederate uniforms would make more of a statement than showing up in just blue. But perhaps a unified counter protest of both the blue and grey. I do wonder why civil war battlefields are being trageted.

Frank Lilley

Footslogger
07-04-2006, 02:06 PM
I guess our news media got it all wrong then a fews years back when they reported that the Klan was announced as being a banned organisation, when they tried a resurgence, It was about the time a the klan dragged and killed a coloured guy behind a pick up.Somewhere down South. I studied early photo's of the massed Klan rallies in Washington and you know there was not one Confederate Battle Flag in site every Flag on show was the good ole Star spangled banner. Freedom of speech is always worth defending and should be everyones right, just the same as its everyones right not to listen!!!.

Regards

Ol'Hickory
07-04-2006, 02:12 PM
I guess our news media got it all wrong then a fews years back when they reported that the Klan was announced as being a banned organisation, when they tried a resurgence, It was about the time a the klan dragged and killed a coloured guy behind a pick up.Somewhere down South. I studied early photo's of the massed Klan rallies in Washington and you know there was not one Confederate Battle Flag in site every Flag on show was the good ole Star spangled banner. Freedom of speech is always worth defending and should be everyones right, just the same as its everyones right not to listen!!!.

Regards

John Valori told me that the confederate battle flag was turned into a racist mark.

I dont agree, I think its just a dig a dixie, I mean it wasent ALL about slavery now was it, lincoln said that because then Britain could not intervine..if he hadent of done that we might have shown up and the south would have won.

Pvt_Idaho
07-04-2006, 03:12 PM
Dear Frank,

Just an educated guess based on the Antietam rally statements I read a few weeks ago. National Parks with Civil War significance are inviting places for two reasons. 1) because they are National Parks on US government controlled land, they must be open to all and the Park Service must grant the KKK a permit for a peaceful gathering to excercise their First Amendment right of Free Speech and Assembly and 2) because the KKK envision themselves as successors of the Confederates, the fact they are protesting on land where a Civil War battle was fought is a draw. They still feel the war is being fought and they are threatened by what they perceive as Yankee liberal ideals. And thus the Civil War battlefield seems an appropriate place to protest.

I am wondering if they will choose Appomattox Court House at some point. Sheesh.

Respectfully,

Audrey Scanlan

White Horse
07-04-2006, 05:46 PM
Ku Klux Klan targeting Civil War sites
Tuesday, July 04, 2006

By Milan Simonich, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette


Young, a Sharpsburg resident and imperial wizard of the World Knights of the KKK, obtained the permits for both demonstrations.

"The Klan is the ghost of the Confederacy," Mr. Young said yesterday in explaining his interest in battlefields where Southern soldiers fought and died.



The klan is NOT the ghost of the Confederacy, it is the FART of the Confederacy, that long lingering, unwanted stench. It is the streak in the shorts of the confederacy.

MStuart
07-04-2006, 06:20 PM
It is the streak in the shorts of the confederacy.

Crude, but accurate. Well done.

Mark

Gary
07-04-2006, 11:13 PM
I think it best to stay away and let bozos be bozos.

Popeye is right in that the KKK is not just a southern thing. Last time I heard the greatest # of KKK was in Pennsylvania - a state that was loyal to the Union (remember the Bucktails & the rest of the Pennsylvania Reserves?). While the KKK has a Constitutional right of assembly in a traditional public forum, which Gettysburg being a "park" is, we should let them have their little rally with no one watching, let them feel like fools and go home like whipped curs. It would be best if the media could ignore them too so they really feel ignored. That would be very demoralizing to them.

Tigerrebjim
07-05-2006, 12:25 AM
I find it confusing that a war memorial (for Korean Vets) that happens to be in the form of a cross can be ordered removed from City property by the Federal Court System, yet, with all the harm the KKK has done they can have an event on Federal Property.

JIM Tee

cookiemom
07-05-2006, 01:17 AM
"Against the assault of laughter, nothing can stand." -- Mark Twain


Lets hope it rains that day........wrinkles their hoods...
Mark

:) Ugh! Hoods before Labor Day? And did you SEE those dreadful white dresses they wear... absolutely NO fashion sense! Really, how could ANYONE take them seriously? :)

How about including a counter-demonstration by folks just pointing and snickering? I believe laughter would be protected under the "freedom of speech" clause... and no words need be spoken.

Ma Dior
Only The Best of the Classic Designers Mess

P.S. to Frank S. -- if you're reading this, check your PM -- I had a question about horses.

VaTrooper
07-05-2006, 01:54 AM
P.S. to Frank S. -- if you're reading this, check your PM -- I had a question about horses.

That hurts! lol.

Brandon313
07-05-2006, 10:05 AM
i saw that news clip of the KKK protesting at Antietam a few weeks ago. It wasnt a reenactment, just a protest. But they had COUNTER-protestors there! reenactors and civilians alike came and protested against them. Aparently a few years ago it turned into a big fight and so they had cops there and kept the two parties at least 100 yards away from each other.

But the funny thing is, alot of these guys were in nazi uniforms instead of the KKK dress outfit it was a joint KKK/Neo nzi rally. Anyways the nazis, who are supposed to be the "master race" the "cream of the human civilization" was a bunch of MAJORLY overweight losers who have probably never even finished high school. i just thought that was pretty rediculous that the master race was just a bunch of bafoons

Chuck A Luck
07-05-2006, 10:22 AM
...we should let them have their little rally with no one watching, let them feel like fools and go home like whipped curs. It would be best if the media could ignore them too so they really feel ignored. That would be very demoralizing to them.

Agreed. If they held a rally, and NO one came to watch, take pictures, report on it, counter-protest, and NOBODY cared, that would (IMHO) be the very best way to put a quiet end to this tactic. Unfortunately, they're all about whipping up the public and their enemies and counter-protesters, so no one coming or caring is probably unlikely at best. :-\

cookiemom
07-05-2006, 02:10 PM
That hurts! lol.
Oh, for heaven's sake!

Ma

P.S. to William S. -- if you're reading this, check your PM -- I had a question about horses.

:) Feel better now?

VaTrooper
07-05-2006, 02:16 PM
Nope, cause I wasnt much help.

cookiemom
07-05-2006, 02:27 PM
Nope, cause I wasnt much help.
But you're "a good young man with a heart of gold" nevertheless. The guy with the horse was right.

Ma

bob 125th nysvi
07-05-2006, 08:11 PM
and should actually be glad they have the right to do what they are doing.

Because by having their rights protected we have our rights protected. And I'd really prefer that they have theirs so I can have mine, instead of trying to say who can do what. Because sooner or later the people in power will not like what I want to say.

For all you southern reenactors just imagine an America where Jessie Jacksom and Nacy Pelozi determine what you can or can't say or in your case wave.

And any first year journalism student can tell you why they keep picking CW sites in the north. Publicity.

Any such rally in the south will draw from the press a 'ho hum, its just the illiterate redneck bigots doing their thing.'

But in the north its a "OH MY GOD ITS SPREADING!' reaction.

And yes I am well aware of the REAL situations regarding racism and regionalism in America but we are talking about our well educated media here boys (that was sarcasm for those who missed it).

I have a degree in communications and we always used to get a good laugh at the media covering 'live demonstrations' outside the UN or other big public place. We all knew darn well that the organizers would schedule the 'demonstration' so it would get picked up by the local and national evening news. They alerted all the news outlets about the demonstration and then were out of there almost as fast as the reporters were.

The sad thing is most of America fell for it everytime.

The best thing is to TOTALLY ignore them and the news media outlets covering the event. When it stops getting ratings the media will stop covering it and KKK will have to go off in the woods and play by themselves.

Worry about when they start getting votes. Hitler was a nobody street thug UNTIL he was VOTED into office.

Bob Sandusky
Co C 125th NYSVI
Esperance, NY

reb64
07-05-2006, 10:43 PM
Question..... Why do they keep choosing Union victories?! Whoever their coordinator is needs a history book.

why does your stereotype have the kkk out of place at a "union" victory. they don't belong to the south, they are a post war creation long removed from any southern connection. they were comprised of memebers nation wide, maybe even larger up north at some points.

reb64
07-05-2006, 10:45 PM
and should actually be glad they have the right to do what they are doing.

Because by having their rights protected we have our rights protected. And I'd really prefer that they have theirs so I can have mine, instead of trying to say who can do what. Because sooner or later the people in power will not like what I want to say.

For all you southern reenactors just imagine an America where Jessie Jacksom and Nacy Pelozi determine what you can or can't say or in your case wave.

And any first year journalism student can tell you why they keep picking CW sites in the north. Publicity.

Any such rally in the south will draw from the press a 'ho hum, its just the illiterate redneck bigots doing their thing.'

But in the north its a "OH MY GOD ITS SPREADING!' reaction.

And yes I am well aware of the REAL situations regarding racism and regionalism in America but we are talking about our well educated media here boys (that was sarcasm for those who missed it).

I have a degree in communications and we always used to get a good laugh at the media covering 'live demonstrations' outside the UN or other big public place. We all knew darn well that the organizers would schedule the 'demonstration' so it would get picked up by the local and national evening news. They alerted all the news outlets about the demonstration and then were out of there almost as fast as the reporters were.

The sad thing is most of America fell for it everytime.

The best thing is to TOTALLY ignore them and the news media outlets covering the event. When it stops getting ratings the media will stop covering it and KKK will have to go off in the woods and play by themselves.

Worry about when they start getting votes. Hitler was a nobody street thug UNTIL he was VOTED into office.

Bob Sandusky
Co C 125th NYSVI
Esperance, NY


nothing new about kkk up north, they are nation wide, not exclusive to the south, people forget their flag is the US falg, not the battle flag

reb64
07-05-2006, 10:49 PM
maybe the spirits of those honored dead will come back and show those "ghosts of our confederate brothers" a thing or two.

It *is* an interesting touch that they keep going to Union victory sites though, I must agree.

Chris

the kaln today is not the klan statrted and disbanded after the civil war. It is no more southern than fathers day or coke anymore. it is nation wide north and south, the US flag is theri official flag, not the battle flag. white supremacy is not confined to the mason dixon line.

tompritchett
07-06-2006, 12:56 AM
Worry about when they start getting votes.

In the 60's, Lester Maddox. More modern times, David Dukes.

tompritchett
07-06-2006, 01:04 AM
It is no more southern than fathers day or coke anymore

Depends upon the individual Klan group you are talking about. Some do claim heritage with the original Klan and with the original goals of the "Confederacy". Remember there is no such thing as The Klan but instead a collection of individual, independent groups with overlapping beliefs and doctrines - much like reenacting units and messes.

bob 125th nysvi
07-08-2006, 08:01 PM
nothing new about kkk up north, they are nation wide, not exclusive to the south, people forget their flag is the US falg, not the battle flag

Is you're educated and understand these things.

Your average gawker of the mainstream media thinks that the KKK is some racist group of thugs from somewhere MUCH less sophisticated than where they live.

And the media feeds that impression.

Its not like the KKK has an open recruiting office on a street corner in everybody's hometown is it?

So it's easy fro people to pretend "its those people".

There are racists and bigots in every group, just don't mention that out loud, you'll get killed in the media.

Bob Sandusky
Co C 125th NYSVI
Esperance, NY

Trimmings
07-08-2006, 08:07 PM
Look no further than Indiana in the 1920s. It was the state with the most powerful KKK, and the Ku Kluxers influenced the outcome of the 1924 gubernatorial race with the election of Edward Jackson. The Stephenson scandal in 1926 was gruesome enough to bring the downfall of the KKK in Indiana and nationwide.

Ray Prosten